Permits needed for recreation in Washington State

As usual none of the different entities seem to agree on the rules for this yet.

We now pay to travel on "our" public land and go look at the road closures listed on the east side. Hunters that have drawn special tags will not even be able to get to some of the areas they have drawn a tag for.

OLYMPIA - Flanked by recreation enthusiasts, Governor Chris Gregoire today signed legislation that will keep state park and recreation lands open with revenue from a vehicle access pass known as the Discover Pass.

Beginning July 1, 2011, you will need to display the Discover Pass on your vehicle when visiting state recreation lands managed by the Washington State Parks and Recreation Commission, the Washington State Department of Natural Resources and the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife. The fine for not displaying the pass is $99.

OLYMPIA – March 30, 2012 – A single, state recreation land pass now can be used on either of two motor vehicles, thanks to new legislation signed today by Gov. Chris Gregoire.

The change takes effect immediately. Holders of previously issued annual passes may enter a second vehicle license number on their existing pass.

Pass transfer between two vehicles also applies to vehicle access passes (VAPs) issued free with purchases of annual fishing and hunting licenses for access to Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) recreation lands and water- access sites.

"The Discover Pass is a great way to experience some of Washington’s most extraordinary places and this legislation makes it even easier to visit our state parks and recreation lands," said Gov. Chris Gregoire. "Our parks, some of the best in the world, rely on user support and this small investment to enjoy our public lands is well worth it."

The Discover Pass was created by the 2011 Legislature and took effect last July. The pass - required to park motor vehicles in state parks and other state recreation lands - was created to make up for reductions in state general fund support for state recreation lands. The new modifications were adopted in Engrossed Second Substitute House Bill 2373, originally sponsored by Rep. Kevin Van De Wege and Rep. Steve Tharinger.

The annual Discover Pass is sold for $30 and provides vehicle access to millions of acres of state recreation lands managed by the Washington State Parks and Recreation Commission, WDFW and the Washington Department of Natural Resources (DNR). One-day passes are available for $10 but are not transferable.

The Discover Pass is sold through state vehicle-licensing outlets, at state parks, at some retail businesses and through WDFW’s recreational licensing system, known as the Washington Interactive Licensing System (WILD). Transaction and dealer fees may apply.

Eighty-four percent of Discover Pass revenues go to State Parks, while WDFW and DNR each receive 8 percent.

So far, revenue from Discover Pass sales has come in at less than half of original projections. Projected sales through the end of 2011 were $19.38 million, while actual revenue for the period was $8.2 million.

"Customers have asked for transferable passes, the agencies sought this change and the Legislature has responded," said Don Hoch, State Parks director. "Customer survey results indicated that pass transferability between two vehicles could boost support for the Discover Pass. We are optimistic that the change will lead to greater public support and participation. We now depend on the Discover Pass to keep state parks and other state recreation lands open for public use and enjoyment."

The new legislation also allows for future development of new types of Discover Pass products and provides flexibility in how they are implemented.

Wow !!! This really makes sense. Now you can share your one discover pass between two vehicles. But only one at a time. If you take two vehicles into the hills like many of us do, you will still need a pass for both of them. Meanwhile the State is not getting any money from the heavy users. The people that live around the State Parks and the areas that really need the money for their expensive upkeep. These people walk, ride or bicycle into their favorite parks and they pay nothing. Meanwhile, back country (and unimproved area) users foot the bill for the expensive to maintain parks.

Getting so you have to hire a lawyer to read the regs to go sledding these days...

DNR, State Parks announce changes to winter recreation requirements
Some areas require a Sno-Park permit; others will need a Discover Pass

DNR manages several winter recreation trailheads, which are no longer part of the Sno-Park system. For these areas, visitors will need an annual or day-use Discover Pass at the following:

• Manastash in Kittitas County (Note: Manastash is not open this season due to storm damage from last spring)

Manastash Winter Recreation Area See additional information -Manastash is now managed by Washington State Parks.

In addition, those who purchase a one-day Sno-Park permit will also need an annual or one-day Discover Pass to visit the following locations:

From what I read, this is going to be a hanger for your rear view mirror. Will not be transferable to our other vehicles.

Q: Will the Discover Pass be transferable between vehicles?

A: No. The Discover Pass would have room for one license plate number. If you would be taking two vehicles, you would need two passes.

So do we still need the Northwest Forest Pass ? From what I read, nobody directly address’s this question. When I read between the lines and use my deduction powers… it looks like we will need both.

6/1/2011 Yes, Both Pass's are needed. Northwest Forest Pass is for federal lands and the Discover Pass is for State Lands

You have to buy this Discover Pass to even drive on DNR Lands and from what I read in the bill...

The Discover Pass is vehicle specific ! Meaning you have to have one for each vehicle !

Because we hunt on DNR land... it will cost Patti & I $120.00 ($90.00) for our 4 (3) rigs including horse trailer.

6/1/2011 It looks like from reading the WAC that a trailer is not considered motorized and would not need a pass.

The main reason for this bill is to keep the heavily used "expensive to maintain" local state parks open.

Most of the main users of these parks live close and walk or ride into these parks and do not even have to buy a pass. From what I have seen in past storms, not many of these locals come out to volunteer when the park needs work. And they are the squeaky wheels that got greased with this bill.

Who foots the bill and has to buy multiple pass's ? ... Users that are using less developed DNR lands.

And as far as the 24 hours of volunteering to get a "free" pass...
That means they only figure I'm worth about a $1.25 per hour. (without my cost to do the work)
My time...24 hours @ 1.25 per hr....................$30.00 (value of pass)
Truck fuel to get to the work.............................$50.00 (my cost easy)
Wear & tear on my truck...................................$10.00 (my cost easy)
My chain saw.....fuel, oil & wear.......................$40.00 (my cost easy) try to rent a saw for $40.00 a day
Total for volunteering for one 12 hr day...........$100.00 my cost
Total for volunteering for another 12 hr day.....$100.00 my cost
Total....................................................................$200.00 just to get a free pass ????? (what a slap in the face)

As Horse People that ride in the hills a lot. Patti and I have cleared blocking timber on about 10 miles of the PCT for years (along with many other side trails) without asking for any compensation.

Q. If I am driving through or parking outside of a designated trailhead or non-exempt campground, will I need to buy a pass?
A. Yes. Anytime you are on state recreation lands managed by WDFW, DNR or State Parks, you will need a Discover Pass.

Q. If I am gathering mushrooms, berries or firewood for my personal use or doing other dispersed recreation activities such as geocaching, driving forest roads, bird watching, etc., do I still need to purchase an access pass?
A. Yes. All street-licensed vehicles will need a Discover Pass to access state recreation lands managed by the agencies, regardless of the type of activity or use.

Q. Do I need a Discover Pass if I walk or ride a bicycle to state recreation lands?
A. No. The Discover Pass is a vehicle permit. If you walk or ride a bike or horse to state recreation lands, then you won’t need the pass.

From: Mike Reid "MSN"
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2011 9:37 AM
To: DNR RE Public Information
Subject: recreation permit questions

Ok... Lets see if I understand this. Please answer each question so I can post the information correctly on my web page.

(1) I need a "Forest Pass" to park at a trail head in the National Forest and I will also need the Discover Pass to travel over DNR land to get there ? Technically you are correct if the area has been posted as a recreation area. In reality we will be focused on those vehicles that are parked.

(2) When I am hunting on DNR land, I will need a Discover Pass on the truck left in camp on DNR land and another Discover Pass on the Jeep I use to

recover my game ? Yes, you will need to have a pass for both vehicles if they are on lands managed by DNR or State Parks. Hunter or Fishers will receive a free parking pass for use on DF&W lands only with a purchase of a hunting and fishing license.

(3) From what I read... the Discover Pass is a decal to be put on the front windshield. That means I need to buy a Discover Pass for each vehicle that might be used to travel over DNR land ? (None transferable vehicle to vehicle) ? That is correct, except it is not a decal but a hanger that goes on your rear view mirror.

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----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Reid "MSN"
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2011 11:07 AM
To: JARRETT, SAM (DNR)
Subject: "Discover Pass"

Sam:

Mike here... wondering how the need for the new "Discover Pass" will affect us Hams when we park at the gravel parking lot off 18 while doing work at our repeater site at East Tiger. Lots of times we park a couple of rigs at the bottom and ride up together. Other times I have left my truck at the bottom and gone up by snowmobile or snowcat.

Just trying to get things straight before one of us gets a ticket. <grin>

Thanks, Mike Reid "N7NEW"

mxreid@msn.com

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Question: Do I need the Pass when I am working at a Ham radio site located on DNR property ? eample... Tiger Mt

From: JARRETT, SAM (DNR)
To: Mike Reid "MSN"
Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 10:44 AM
Subject: RE: "Discover Pass"

Hi Mike,

I think that we will be developing a contractor pass that will be given to folks like yourself to gain access and do their job. Please stay tuned as we work out the kinks with the Discover Pass and try to implement by July 1st.

Sam Jarrett
Recreation Manager
South Puget Sound Region, Snoqualmie Unit
Washington State Department of Natural Resources (DNR)
(206) 375-0448
sam.jarrett@dnr.wa.gov
www.dnr.wa.gov

WASHINGTON DEPARTMENT OF FISH AND WILDLIFE
600 Capitol Way North, Olympia, WA 98501-1091
http://wdfw.wa.gov LAND LINE NEWS NOTES
May 2011
New Discover Pass will help keep recreation lands operating
Washington’s new Discover Pass will help keep Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) lands open for recreation, despite reductions in state General Fund support.
Legislation creating the Discover Pass was introduced by state Sen. Kevin Ranker (D-San Juan Islands), passed by the 2011 Legislature and signed into law May 12 by Gov. Chris Gregoire. The Washington State Parks and Recreation Commission, WDFW and the state Department of Natural Resources (DNR) jointly requested legislation that led to the creation of the Discover Pass.
During the bill signing, Gov. Gregoire described the Discover Pass as "a solution that allows us to help keep our state recreation lands open and accessible during the worst budget crisis in the state’s history."
The Discover Pass will cost $30 per year or $10 per day for vehicle access to recreation land and water-access sites managed by WDFW, DNR and State Parks.
The pass will be required as of July 1, and will go on sale in mid-June at nearly 600 retail outlets statewide that sell hunting and fishing licenses. It also will be available for purchase online at https://fishhunt.dfw.wa.gov/ or by calling toll free 1-866-320-9933. Beginning next fall, the pass also may be purchased when renewing a vehicle license through the state Department of Licensing.Holders of certain types of hunting and fishing licenses will not need a Discover Pass for access to Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) recreation lands and boat launches; instead a Vehicle Access Pass for WDFW recreation lands and water access will be issued free with purchase of a big-game or small-game hunting license, western Washington pheasant permit, trapping license, Watchable Wildlife decal, or saltwater or freshwater or combination recreational fishing license. Fishers and hunters will need a Discover Pass for access to state parks and DNR’s designated recreation areas, sites, trailheads and parking areas. The Discover Pass will not be needed to access undesignated DNR lands.
Details on other exemptions to Discover Pass requirements are detailed at the Discover Pass website at http://www.discoverpass.wa.gov .
"Fishers and hunters already support WDFW recreation lands through their license fees, and that contribution was recognized in the legislation by waiving the Discover Pass requirement for most fishers and hunters on WDFW lands," said Jennifer Quan, WDFW’s land manager.
WDFW also will honor current Vehicle Use Permits on WDFW lands through next March 31. However, current VUP holders will need to purchase a separate Discover Pass for access to other state recreation lands after July 1.Revenue from the Discover Pass will be split among the three state agencies in proportion to their need for General Fund replacement - 84 percent to State Parks; 8 percent to WDFW; and 8 percent to DNR.
In addition to providing a stable source of land operation revenue, the legislation provides reciprocal authority for law enforcement staff from each agency, to improve public safety and help protect state resources.
For more information on the 840,000-plus acres of land and 700 water-access sites managed by WDFW visit http://wdfw.wa.gov/lands/ .

Q. Where will I need a Discover Pass?
A. The pass allows access to state recreation lands and water access sites managed by Washington State Parks (State Parks), Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) and Washington State Department of Natural Resources (DNR). These lands include state parks, water access points, heritage sites, wildlife and natural areas, trails and trailheads. The Discover Pass will be needed to access DNR’s developed or designated recreation areas, sites, trailheads and parking areas.

Q. If I am driving through or parking outside of a designated trailhead or non-exempt campground, will I need to buy a pass?
A. Yes. Anytime you are on state recreation lands managed by WDFW, DNR or State Parks, you will need a Discover Pass.

Q. If I am gathering mushrooms, berries or firewood for my personal use or doing other dispersed recreation activities such as geocaching, driving forest roads, bird watching, etc., do I still need to purchase an access pass?
A. Yes. All street-licensed vehicles will need a Discover Pass to access state recreation lands managed by the agencies, regardless of the type of activity or use.

From: Mike Reid "MSN" [mailto:mxreid@msn.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 9:24 AM
To: MAUREN, MARK (DNR)
Subject: questions about discover pass

Mark, I asked questions of you before. You answered promptly. Thank you.

I know the Discover Pass is a headache for you guys at this time.

Every Hunter I know is still confused about the regulations around the Discover Pass.

I am trying to get this all sorted out to help all of us and do post the information on my web page.

http://www.mikereidconstruction.com/permits_needed_for_recreation.htm

Quoted from the Discover Pass page...

Q. Where will I need a Discover Pass?
A. The pass allows access to state recreation lands and water access sites managed by Washington State Parks (State Parks), Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) and Washington State Department of Natural Resources (DNR). These lands include state parks, water access points, heritage sites, wildlife and natural areas, trails and trailheads. The Discover Pass will be needed to access DNR’s developed or designated recreation areas, sites, trailheads and parking areas.

My question is... I happen to camp on what I consider unimproved DNR land on Manastash Ridge. (nothing but woods) I also drive through DNR lands on my way to this area. Do we need the Discover Pass to do this ? The reason I am so concerned about this is I drive my truck pulling my Jeep and my wife comes up on weekends in another rig. If we need the pass, that means I will have to buy 3 Discover Pass's (same way for many other hunters)

Thanks for your time, Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: MAUREN, MARK (DNR)
To: Mike Reid "MSN"
Cc: DROSCHER, TONI (DNR) ; Flint, Bryan (DNR)
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 12:27 PM
Subject: RE: questions about discover pass

Hi Mike

There is the legal response and then there is the operation direction we will be providing Law Enforcement Officers.

Legally – The law reads that if you are parked or driving on DNR land/roads you will need a discover pass for each vehicle.

Operationally – If the road system accesses other landowners, you will not need a discover pass if you are just driving through. However, if you park on DNR land and you are not conducting business with the agency the vehicle will need a pass.

On the issue of vehicles needing a pass if the jeep you are pulling is not a registered/licensed vehicle it will not need a discover pass

Hope this helps

Mark

Mike received email stating that the DNR website says "DNR-managed state trust lands in the southeastern part of the state are scattered parcels with no developed recreation areas. The Discover Pass is not required on these lands." If you look on the DNR website for a region map, you will see that Yakima & Kittitas Counties show up in the Southeast region. But... If you look at the Southwest region map... it shows the Southwest region taking in lands clear to the Columbia River. Pretty confusing to me, so I wrote more emails. You know what... After writing these emails and getting answers... I still am not sure whether Kittitas & Yakima counties are in the Southwest or Southeast region.

I can’t tell if a Discover Pass is needed on the LT Murray that spreads over Kittitas & Yakima counties.

So the question is… Is the LT Murray in the Southeast region or the Southwest region ?

Please read the following showing my confusion.

Thanks, Mike

mxreid@msn.com

Copied from DNR website 8/30/2011

Check it out for yourself... http://www.dnr.wa.gov/RecreationEducation/Pages/Home.aspx

What about the southeast part of the state?
DNR-managed state trust lands in the southeastern part of the state are scattered parcels with no developed recreation areas. The Discover Pass is not required on these lands.

The following information & maps copied from... http://www.dnr.wa.gov/RecreationEducation/Topics/OpenClosureNotices/Pages/amr_statewide_rec.aspx

This map shows Kittitas & Yakima counties in the Southeast region…

This map shows Kittitas & Yakima counties in the Southwest region.

Soutwest Region Map

Further more, below… the dark green & the red dotted areas require the Discover Pass and the LT Murray shows in dark green on the southwest region map. So again, the question is… Is the LT Murray in the Southeast region or the Southwest region ?

Mark's emailed answer... 9/2/2011

Hi Mike

Good question, the Lt Murray is in Southeast Region. In order to make the map more readable we divided it into four quadrants. When doing so no lands requiring a Discover Pass showed up in the SE quadrant hence no map. Lt Murray and Ahtanum show up in the Southwest quadrant.

Hope that helps if not let me know.

Mark

Mike's email reply... 9/2/2011

Mark:

So the way I read it is...

Taken from DNR web site

"DNR-managed state trust lands in the southeastern part of the state are scattered parcels with no developed recreation areas. The Discover Pass is not required on these lands."

No Discover Pass is needed in the South East region.

Reading the South East region map, that includes any lands in Yakima & Kittitas Counties.

Mark, I'm not trying to be a pain here but have got many emails from friends all over the state asking these questions. They are reading the DNR web site this way. I'm just trying to get to the bottom of this. <grin>

I do appreciate your prompt replies and the honesty I noticed in our previous emails.

Thanks again for your time, Mike

Mark's email reply... 9/3/2011

Hi Mike
You will need a discover pass for the large blocks of state ownership in Yakima and Kittitas, you do not need a discover pass for the scattered parcels. The block of stateownersip in the two counties are shown on the southwest quadrant map.

Have a great weekend

Mark

Where can I use the Washington & Oregon Recreation Pass?
The new Washington and Oregon Recreation Pass is honored for day-use at all Forest Service, National Park Service, Bureau of Land Management, and U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service sites as well as offering access to Oregon State parks & Recreation Department day-use fee parks, U.S. Army Corps of Engineers fee sites and 23 (of 120) selected Washington State parks and Recreation Commission parks charging launch or trailer dump fees. All participating sites are located in the Washington & Oregon Recreation